Middle Earth Ranger Forum

So I've been working on my quiver, and the time has come to actualize my many ideas for the strap. The quiver is a leather back quicker in the style of the Ithilien Rangers (pictures will come eventually) but the strap that will hold it on is giving me a lot more trouble than the quiver itself did. The problem right now? BUCKLES! I want there to be a buckle on the right breast, much the way Faramir and his rangers have in the films.




I don't just want to use any old buckle, though! Ideally, I'd like to find a good, historical-looking, Gondorian-feeling buckle, since it is going to be front and center. Parameters are wide open. One of the problems I've been facing here, though, is the SIZE of the buckles. Many of them are meant to be small fastenings, so when I do find one in the right style it tends to be very small. The belts I'm using are 1.5 inches wide, and I'd like to avoid cutting them down if I can.

These are the types of buckles I've found that I think might be suitable. The first one is the closest in size, and I quite like the look of it.



If anyone has any recommendations for where I might find buckles, or opinions on styles that strike you as Gondorian, or literally anything to say on the matter, I'm very receptive.

(Side note: I also have a great fondness for Tauriel's belt, strangely.)

gah. I have spent probably dozens of hours combing the web for suitable buckles, with very poor results. Ultimately, I decided the only way to get what I wanted was to learn metal casting myself.

That said, that particular Gondorian buckle looks fairly easy to replicate with rod stock and sheet brass. Also (lucky you) Blind Squirrel Props has a decent copy of it on Shapeways. (it's actually the one from Boromir's shield I think, but same basic idea)


http://www.shapeways.com/product/5FL3Z2 ... dor-buckle

It might not be quite right for your purposes, but simple size changes should be easy enough the maker might consider tweaking their model for you.

Oh!

Another option is commisioning a custom piece from this guy:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/WhiteArmour
(check out his past sales)

He's not done that piece exactly, but he's done similar work. It won't be cheap, but if you want something that screams "WETA Ithilien" he's your guy.

Other then that, you're down to kinda-close medievalish buckles. You found the Viking one and Wulflund and lorifactor already I see...

another - not tried him, but his store images look nice - is Matthias Metalsmith on etsy:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/MatthiasMetalsmith

.. and I presume you know of Raymond's Quiet Press?
http://quietpress.com

There's lots of others, but those are the notables right now I think.
And... yeah. None of the real medieval stuff quite fits to my eye. :/

For extra quandary-ness, there are vintage art nouveau buckles:
https://www.etsy.com/market/art_nouveau_buckle

Ow wow - I'd never noticed how the long frame of Faramir's buckle lets you tuck the tail of the strap underneath - that's cool! I might have to try that someday.

Another consideration - less flashy though - is that I can well imagine Rangers of the North (pre WoTR at any rate) would eschew obvious ornaments that stand out, so as to pass more discreetly through the Breelands and other settlements. Simple leather lacing to fasten straps to length might be the order of the day for them. On the other hand - there's no doubt tons of buckles and such in Eriador ready to be polished up and re-used, so there's no reason they *couldn't* choose one - though I'd expect it to be darkened so as not to be a shiny attention-getter in the forest.

Being an official military force, the Rangers of Ithilen are a completely different matter of course.






(Pardon my talking so much, but you're on one of my favorite topics. )

I second Raymond's Quiet Press. I have several from them. Armor and castings (http://armourandcastings.com/category/prjazhki-/) is another good choice.

Looking forward to seeing how this ends up.

Fantastic response already, guys! What else would I expect from this forum, eh? Thank you all so much, and I can't wait to share it as it comes together.

Elleth wrote:Oh!
Another option is commisioning a custom piece from this guy:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/WhiteArmour
(check out his past sales)

This guy is phenomenal! I'd not seen his work before. He has the Gondorian belt I keep running into. I'm very curious to the manner of its function, and how well it holds. I SERIOUSLY might try to get Boromir's cloak clasps from him. I know it's a bit shiny for a ranger... but mayhap I'll need some ceremonial wear?

Elleth wrote:And... yeah. None of the real medieval stuff quite fits to my eye. :/

I tend to agree, though the Rus buckles for some reason strike me as a very simplified Numenorean motif.

Kortoso wrote:For extra quandary-ness, there are vintage art nouveau buckles:
https://www.etsy.com/market/art_nouveau_buckle

WOW. I would never have thought to look for that. Man, wouldn't these make for killer elf hardware?

E.MacKermak wrote:I second Raymond's Quiet Press. I have several from them. Armor and castings (http://armourandcastings.com/category/prjazhki-/) is another good choice.

Looking forward to seeing how this ends up.

Glad you posted this. They have some of very similar designs to those I've seen at RQP and others, but with some slightly bigger sizes. Score!

Elleth wrote: (Pardon my talking so much, but you're on one of my favorite topics. )

No problem at all, I love the enthusiasm! I absolutely agree with your point. Someone has posted the quote on here before about how the rangers didn't wear anything flashy, and I've kind of kept that idea around as a cornerstone through my creating.

Woo! I got permission to post these. Here's the buckles I made this fall for a project trade -
My "in world" conceit is that they're re-purposed from an old cavalry harness. They're fit for about a 1" -1.25" strap.

The aesthetic was loosely based off WETA's work - both the Strider buckle and the vague "Tree" shape of Gondorian buckles:
(mine on the left, of course)
Carving the original master was a surprisingly minor part of the project: even once you get from wax to bronze, there's a lot of cleanup to do: Sometime later this spring I'll turn out a few of these for my own use I think.. then on to other projects. Onward!

Elleth wrote: My "in world" conceit is that they're re-purposed from an old cavalry harness. They're fit for about a 1" -1.25" strap.

FREAKING AWESOME, ELLETH. And I love the in-world conceit. Random details like that are astonishingly common in the military history of the real world, re-purposing to save in times of war, or to transition in/out of wartime.

If I may add something about buckles?
One of the questions about early medieval belts is whether the end of the belt had a keeper (a small strap crosswise over the belt end), as our belts commonly do today.
Many times, we find belt buckle sets from the early middle ages that consist of a buckle with an ornate plate, often paired with an ornate metal strap-end.

If this buckle used a keeper, then the decoration on the plate would be covered up; this is often used as proof that keepers were not used in that time period. The end of the belt was probably hanging loose.

If this buckle used a keeper, then the decoration on the plate would be covered up; this is often used as proof that keepers were not used in that time period. The end of the belt was probably hanging loose.

We don't even need to infer - there's period illuminations showing exactly that: Personally, I'm quite fond of the standard "buckle, then knot the tail around the belt" arrangement that's fairly ubiquitous in reenactor circles, though I suppose it's possible that's an anachronism. I don't recall seeing it in the sources, but I've not gone looking either. But it avoids the modern look of a keeper, and is much cleaner looking than leaving a belt to dangle.

... for belts at least. For straps over a shoulder I'm not so fond of the knotted tail, and I've not settled on something I *do* like yet.

He has the Gondorian belt I keep running into. I'm very curious to the manner of its function, and how well it holds.

First, disclaimer: to the best of my knowledge this arrangement is something WETA has come up with - I've no memory of seeing it in any historical sources.
That said, I'm sure you've owned a belt that worked very similarly: the only difference from the familiar is that the Gondor version is offset - from the perspective of the viewer, the tail comes in the top left, is held in place by a stud mounted to the buckle, and the tail comes back out the bottom right:
I expect it can't be cinched as tight as the familiar pattern, in which the tail comes in straight from the side... but I doubt that was a hindrance here. That said, I've not tried it.


Pippin's setup uses a similar buckle in the front, but presumably without a central stud: instead a standard buckle is used on his left hip, and the "buckle" serves a mostly ornamental purpose anchoring all the straps together in front:

Elleth wrote:Personally, I'm quite fond of the standard "buckle, then knot the tail around the belt" arrangement that's fairly ubiquitous in reenactor circles, though I suppose it's possible that's an anachronism. I don't recall seeing it in the sources, but I've not gone looking either. But it avoids the modern look of a keeper, and is much cleaner looking than leaving a belt to dangle.

... for belts at least. For straps over a shoulder I'm not so fond of the knotted tail, and I've not settled on something I *do* like yet.

Thanks. In some circles, it's called a "reenactorism". Although fantasy reenactment wouldn't be as closely bound, I'd hope.

Kortoso wrote:

Elleth wrote:Personally, I'm quite fond of the standard "buckle, then knot the tail around the belt" arrangement that's fairly ubiquitous in reenactor circles, though I suppose it's possible that's an anachronism. I don't recall seeing it in the sources, but I've not gone looking either. But it avoids the modern look of a keeper, and is much cleaner looking than leaving a belt to dangle.

... for belts at least. For straps over a shoulder I'm not so fond of the knotted tail, and I've not settled on something I *do* like yet.

Thanks. In some circles, it's called a "reenactorism". Although fantasy reenactment wouldn't be as closely bound, I'd hope.

I don't think it's entirely a reenactorism, though it's not as common in period artwork as it is at reenactments. I've found it most often in effigies depicting a plaque belt, so I don't know if it was more common with that sort of belt, or more common in the upper classes, or if artisans making effigies were more concerned with getting the details right than those decorating manuscripts, or something else entirely.

Detail from the effigy of Edmund Blanket in Bristol (died 1371)


Detail of the effigy of Lord Rhys ap Gruffydd (died 1307)


Brass of John de Argentine (died 1382)


And for a little variety, a tied garter:
Detail from the effigy of Reginald de Cobham in Lingfield (died 1361)


Like Kortoso said, though, for fantasy kit it doesn't really matter if it was done historically (I just find these sorts of things interesting ).