A question of Europeon Mythology - Not Tolkien related

[Peter Remling]

When I'm home doing either hobby work or take home work from my job, I generally put on tv for some background noise. As what I'm working on today requires more hand eye coordination than brain cell activity, I was listening to the History Channel's show on Beowulf. Now I'm reasonably familiar with Beowulf, Grendel and Grendel's mom but this show revolved more around the full life of Beowulf and comparing it to actual sites and findings to support an actual existence of Beowulf the man.

They (the History Channel) did not suggest or imply this question in any way. While the story unfolded, I couldn't help but make a comparison to Beowulf and Arthur. First both, if real, were alive at approximately the same time. Dragons or serpents are mentioned in both stories. The two heroes get magical swords from females who live/reside underwater (or the entrance to their home is underwater).

These two heroes have warrior followers and are both involved in political unrest and both become kings. Beowulf is believed to have visited England to battle Grendel and the lake occupied by his mother is one believed to be in northern England. There is also a lot of early Christian religious comparisons but, I ask we stay away from them on the open forum. If you have something to say on the religious aspects I urge you to pm me. I am interested in what you'll have to say but we don't want to break and forum rules.

A good many of you are way more knowledgeable than I on these tales which seem to me to have too much in common with each other to not have the same origin.

I would appreciate any and all comment on the matter.

[Mirimaran]

I'd love to see that doc! I am a big fan of Arthur, but my knowledge would probably be of the mythical than historical. Here's a great doc we watched earlier on Beowulf, which I also posted over on the FB page. There is also a telling of the story by actor Julian Glover! Now that's how these stories are meant to be told!

Ken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C0sFXU0SLo

[Peter Remling]

I bookmarked it to watch over the weekend. I'll see if I can find the History channel show and post a link to it.

[Peter Remling]

The History Channel show was part of a series "Clash of the Gods". The entire show doesn't seem to be available without purchase. There are several if not all parts of it available as separate videos:

https://www.google.com/search?q=history ... =firefox-a

You should be able to get the gist of it from these pieces.

[appalachianranger]

I would not be surprised at all if Beowulf were actually an early inspiration for the tales of King Arthur.
Now, I have not seen the above-mentioned television shows. (I won't bore you with how busy I am, but suffice it to say television is at the end of a long list of activities for me these days! )
But I have read the texts on both legendary heroes with a great deal of interest and I would have to say there are a great deal of similarities between them.
First, Beowulf's battle with Grendel actually reminds me a lot of the battle between Arthur and the Giant of Mont Saint-Michel. Both involve savage monsters no other man could defeat who were overcome by our heroes through sheer prowess.
Second, the ladies in the lakes (or strange women lying in ponds distributing swords to establish a basis of government! ) are certainly a recurring theme, as are dragons and warrior vassals.
Where Arthur and Beowulf differ most to me, however, is their behavior toward their knights. Beowulf charges into battle against Grendel and later against the dragon (Angelina Jolie's son with him... say what?!!!) alone. In many texts he even curses the cowardice of his followers who fail to accompany him. Arthur, on the other hand, assembles the knights of the round table and shortly thereafter steps back to rule silently while allowing some of his knights to become as powerful and famous as he is. In some versions of the story, it is well-established that Sir Lancelot is a far better knight than the king himself.
So are they the same? I highly doubt it. But I'd be willing to bet my haggis and lager that one influenced the other.

[Mirimaran]

Peter, I have seen that episode (and own the one about LOTR ) I will have to catch it on Youtube and watch it again. There is a documentary out there, I think it is part of Michael Wood's series In Search of Myths and Heroes Arthur:The One and Future King http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1076454/ that matched his name with the welsh and latin name for bear, and thus linked him to a 5th century chieftain. It is worth checking out. Regardless I take the advice of Monty Python:

“Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!”



Ken

[Straelbora]

Peter, I have seen that episode (and own the one about LOTR ) I will have to catch it on Youtube and watch it again. There is a documentary out there, I think it is part of Michael Wood's series In Search of Myths and Heroes Arthur:The One and Future King http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1076454/ that matched his name with the welsh and latin name for bear, and thus linked him to a 5th century chieftain. It is worth checking out. Regardless I take the advice of Monty Python:

“Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!”



Ken

My youngest son's name is Arthur- I find it interesting that it's said to derive from 'bear,' which may in part show part of that fundamental difference in cultures between the Celts and the other Northern Europeans (which makes sense, since the Irish, Scots, et al. were late arrivals to Northwest Europe, and came from a more Mediterranean background before that. Most indigenous Northern European cultures had a ritual avoidance of directly invoking bears, hence names like Beowulf (Bee Wolf), or the Slavic languages using 'honey eater' (Russian - medvyed), etc. Of course, if you have, like I have on several occasions, run across a bear while hiking (especially the grizzly in Yellowstone), you know why folks wouldn't want to invoke bears.